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It's not something I've consciously thought about when playing EB. But I see the point in at least considering the issue. And you've summed it up pretty comprehensively. I think many of us would find a Fu Manchu super-villain or a visiting Maharajah with a turban with an emerald the size of a pigeon's egg in it just begging to be stolen, or for that matter Madame Sosostris the fortune-teller, to be in keeping with the pseudo-period detail & literary references, but that's the point, these sorts of things are specific references rather than generalised 'inclusiveness'. And they'd most likely take a subversive attitude to the colonial traditions they came from anyway.

But re the general artwork - I don't think it would be too difficult to do what you suggest without making it look like an array of birthday cards or some kind of local council brochure. Some of the art - the dark haired lady (although she is of course a dead ringer for the lady I presume modelled for her), or the jewel thief with the crazy moustache, or the scrawny philosopher guy, if you like - could already be read as someone vaguely 'brown', or not, if you wanted. And there's lots of ways to extend that feeling without being obvious about it. Especially in a sepia-tinted daguerrotype world where there's no natural daylight.

I'm not saying it's not subjective though. As you know, people always find it difficult to tell me what ethnicity they think I belong to, and so maybe I like reading ambiguity into things like this, and maybe that's not good enough for others, I don't know.

PS The grey cats always call me Madam, I like that. Do they call everyone Madam?

To be honest I can't think of a much better way of handling this than what you are doing (and that includes this blog post explaining how you see your options). The flavor of your setting is inextricably mixed up with the prejudices of the Victorian era, and working around some of those prejudices requires careful setting up and finesse.

I greatly admire what you're doing here. I really like how I could choose to not disclose my gender, and seduce both men and women, and I think it's great that you're addressing the problem of under-representation of minorities. It seems that the people in Fallen London are a bit more easy-going, with their toleration of the Rubbery Men (where are the Rubbery Women?), Tomb Colonists and devils from the embassy, could minorities not rise to positions they would not be able to hold Above?

Also, I think there should be more Marxist-Leninists

On the second point, I was pleased and impressed that the game allowed me to play it coy about my character's gender when signing up.  It was also fun to be able to successfully make eyes at both the artist and the artist's model.

I think it helps mildly that all of the player character illustrations are silhouettes, so your character can be whatever ethnicity you care to apply to them.

It would probably be best to avoid making people feel like they're the only minority in the village, and of course the only concrete way of doing this is to make damn sure you actually portray the occasional non-white person rather than keeping them in the shadows, but at the same time increasing the proportion of characters in the artwork who are only presented in silhouette - or shrouded in bandages, in the case of tomb-colonists - would at least increase the capacity of people to see characters as the ethnicity they want to see them as, and would be neatly atmospheric to boot. Like I say, it's not a substitute for actual diversity, but it's something which could complement said diversity nicely.

I would also note that, unless that particular Connection has disappeared, "the Orient" is an actual faction you can create ties with in the game. One rather hopes to meet someone hailing from there at some point...

On the lack of crowd scenes: one of the things I think the game could benefit from is the occasional splash screen with a larger piece of art, to mark especially important game events - such as arriving in New Newgate, or escaping to the city proper, or taking up or completing an ambition. A suitably diverse crowd scene as a little reward for making it out of jail and onto the mean streets of Fallen London would both help establish atmosphere and be a nice way to work a crowd scene in without working too hard at it.

I am an Asian girl, and I'm rather glad that there aren't any Fu-Manchu types or iron-fan Chinese brothel madams or even worse, Chang and Eng in the Echobazaar universe. Quite frankly, it's not that they're offensive so much as they are boring, done, and unoriginal. Stock characters. I agree with Arthur's comment: that a suitably diverse crowd scene might do the trick. If you are going to create race-diverse NPCs, it's going to be incredibly tricky and might not be worth it.

On the other hand, I would love to be able to customize my character beyond the silhouette, and she would, oddly enough, be an Asian woman. So far, none of the inhabitants of Echo Bazaar seem to mind too much. I say let us be the diversity.

Hey Jane,

For what it's worth, I don't think a crowd scene is actually a cure-all for the diversity issue. It's something that can help, but I don't think it can actually substitute for actual race-diverse NPCs.

I agree that it can be very tricky to handle that sort of thing, but that's not a good reason not to try.

I'm glad that Edward Said's been mentioned!! I think of that book every time I see the "Orient" connection mentioned in-game.

I don't think the answer to the issues of portraying race lie in "oh, I didn't really think about it, you seem to be doing a good job so don't worry" pats on the back, or in relatively shallow shows of diversity. As has been said, that doesn't solve much, and is mostly a "corporate america" strategem, done for appearances.

I DO think FBG deserves some patting on the back for thinking about this, for how gender and sexuality have been handled so far, and for doing a lot of crafting of the narrative environment in Fallen London. But that just means that the players should be encouraging the developers to use their talents to make it even better, right? (Well, until the point of exhaustion is reached, at any rate. ;)

So here's my suggestion: use your powers of storytelling to introduce some story-threads that actually explore the question of race in Fallen London. Surely there ARE such stories, just like there are stories that involve gender (a father trying to control his heiress daughter, who's run away with a Clay Man). I know you guys can spin out the racial politics of Fallen London. Like Yossarian said, has mere prejudice over skin color fallen by the wayside? Aren't some people holding on to old racisms? How about people from the surface -- surely they're not only totally disgusted by Rubbery Men and Tomb Colonists, but also shocked that blacks and whites and asians are all fraternizing. And the Fallen Londoners would have their own reactions. What do the Masters of the Bazaar think about race? I imagine they don't care much, but that might also provoke some differences with more surface-ish attitudes about racism.

The attitudes towards the Tomb Colonists and especially the Rubbery Men already smack of racialized prejudice; this is a pretty common way of addressing race in fantasy, right, but in the case of Fallen London it can intersect with real-world Victorian racism -- and classism -- as well. Who works on the docks? Who's supporting the Rubbery Men and who hates them? It's probably defined along real-world race and class lines as well as other factors (religion, etc).

The possibilities go on and on.

You say,
"The thing is, we can go on to use the casual sexism of the nineteenth century to help establish period (three ladies faint at your scandalous joke, and all that), but the presence of strong non-male characters and protagonists takes the sting out of it. Unfortunately it's hard to pull the same trick with casual racism."

It's easier with sexism because it's not really scandalous in our society to display casual sexism -- talk show hosts and boorish celebrities do it all the time. Racism is much more taboo in "public circles" and goes underground -- but I don't think this difference makes either problem worse or better. So if you ask me, the bold thing to do is to take on both, address both, acknowledge how racist, sexist, and classist Victorian society was, and then use the warped setting of Fallen London to tell a different kind of story about it -- how things are breaking apart, changing, becoming worse or laced with darkness, etc.

None of this means you have to go into ultra-disturbing territory where oafish nobles are hurling real-world racial epithets, burning crosses on lawns, or burning Jews. But then, with a portrayal of sexism you don't necessarily need to go all the way to depicting rapes and wives being beaten to death, either. The more subtle signs point in those directions anyway, for those who know. Fallen London is a dark place, but what's darker than the human soul? Why is that true? Because of ugly stuff like this. It's worth tangling with, at least to some degree. (And the game is already at least rated T for Teen, if not M!)

"We have several Colins but not many Daniels." Yes, absolutely, I meant to acknowledge that point. I'm just not sure if there's a killer argument that could decisively settle your dilemmas, so I tend towards the fudging and the ambiguity, but that could end up being of no use to anyone.

". Surely there ARE such stories, just like there are stories that involve gender (a father trying to control his heiress daughter, who's run away with a Clay Man)."

And as the comment from whoever it is in the story who says "gentleman of a muddy complexion, if you know what I mean" makes clear, you can quite happily go down the Terry Pratchett route of making your non-standard-human characters the analogues for minorities; there is then much more humour to be found in the subversion of traditional casual racism, and the point is still made. Golems are of course not quite the same thing as Rubbery People or indeed the zombie Tomb-Colonists, but the debate about what rights should extend to what species of conscious being is still being had... Not to say that you shouldn't find all sorts of story; as I said above, I think you wouldn't have too much difficulty subverting the tired old stereotypes that I perhaps too casually mentioned.

I think the really difficult thing here is addressing the issues whilst maintaining a tone appropriate to a casual game. I think any work which aspires to a mass audience has a responsibility to consider the sort of issues we're talking about here, but at the same time nobody wants to be on the receiving end of a stern lecture or reminded of the time that guy down the street yelled something bigoted at them in the middle of their tea-break.

For my money, I think the heiress plot hit the balance just right; the "muddy-faced" comment was striking enough to bring me up short and think about what was going on (to the point where I agonised over the resolution even more than I would have otherwise, because I realised the implications of the choice before me), but at the same time the situation was fantastic enough that it was still an enjoyable and natural component of my regular ten minutes of escapism. In fact, that's precisely the position I think you need to be aiming for: escapist without being solipsistic.

" it always feels like a bit of an easy option, and it's a temptation to confusion about the point actually being made. What are we actually saying about Clay Men? It's a bit erratic, I have to admit."

Yes, it's a much easier option to have landladies put up signs that say No Trolls No Dwarfs and maybe the laughs you gain from that are pretty cheap ones, sure. But I also don't think you always have to choose between the points you're making (or that you always have to be making any points). That stuff all intersects in real life. One can be disabled and an immigrant etc. Or do you feel that introducing the tension of a character belonging to more than one kind of minority or disadvantaged group just makes it that much more tricky because it multiplies the stereotypes? Or gives them prejudices of their own maybe. You know the sort of thing, where people attempt to justify racism on the grounds that 'well, those people are homophobic so it's OK for us to ban their buildings' types of discourse.

With respect to statements lacking focus, I think it's an inherent issue with the fact that narrative in the game comes in chunks of one or two paragraphs at a time. (And you can't always count on people remembering the earlier paragraphs in a chain - it could potentially take someone well over a week to complete the heiress quest if they're not really focusing on Watchful and only stopping into Ladybones Road when they're too wounded/scandalised to focus on their other stats...)

A single short paragraph is good for stating a simple idea unambiguously. It can also present a complex situation with ambiguities. It's not very good for stating an especially complex idea without ambiguity.

Coming to this conversation late, I'd just like to say that I'm not playing Fallen London for any sense of historical faithfulness. Part of the context I bring to the game is neo-Victorian and Steampunk communities in Second Life. Since everyone there is a person's avatar, there is in most cases an official color-blindess (and gender-, species-, and size-blindnesses), acknowledging that we carry our RL biases and sub/conscious reactions into the situation. The reality of how someone has chosen to portray themself is also not ignored (it's not that kind of false "color blindness").

So I would like to see a wide variety of colors and ethnicities in the art and storylines, without much regard for the niceties (or ugliness) of historical Victorian London.

yes but ability is nothing without opportunity.

The only meaningful thing I think I can add to this conversation is that I think you're consider the issue too strongly from the victorian moral influence on the background.

Yes, it's Fallen London, but it's also "The Bazaar." There is a whole load of tropes and baggage which comes with the mystical everything is permitted Bazaar background trait.

It is rather implied that this is THE place to go in the wider world of the setting if you need to buy something very exotic. I do imagine that a lot, probably a majority of the people on the street are visibly white.

However whenever I picture the hoi polloi of the bazaar, it is a weltering colourful crowd of different types of people from all over the world who have been drawn to the city in search of something or other amongst the many stalls.

If almost anything can be found at the bazaar, it stands to reason that almost anyone might be there trying to find it.

It is important in order to avoid diluting the flavour of the setting to keep most if not all of the named npcs white victorian archetypes, it is after all supposed to be London. However there's no reason why the wider artwork can't give the impression that people of different creeds and colour are present and active throughout the city. It's just that the camera doesn't focus on them, possibly with a hint that this is because the stories of such transient surfacers are just not terribly interesting.

The same way that a TV show that focuses on characters in modern day london never really has a plot arc based around one of the many tourists that flock around the streets during the summer, but it might include some shots of them in the background.

Fwiw, as a person of ethnic minority Britain, I am certainly better disposed towards the game and your team after reading this blog post. It's nice to see that you've thought through these considerations.

s/There is a whole load of tropes/There are a whole load of tropes/

Sorry, I only got 4 hours sleep last night.

When I first started playing echo, the non-gendered option brought me joy (although I've chosen to play a male character). I've known many people who would be extremely pleased, not just with the option period, but the way you implemented it. I've also enjoyed being allowed my own sexuality within in the game. I deal with a lot of pain and prejudice from people in real life, a lot of tiny annoyances that just build and build and build, that having that kind of thing absent from this game makes me want to play it so much more, because I can just relax. This is a great game, and a great distraction from the day.

I hope that you definitely diversify the in game casting more; as much as avoiding accidental racism is a worthy endeavorer, I think keeping the cast too monochrome is going to take away from some people's ability to enjoy this game as an escape the way I have. Seeing yourself (or people like you) erased in the media you consume to forget your worries over time just exacerbates them.

I definitely think it needs to be handled carefully, but since you guys are still growing, still in the process of building the game, with presumably much, much more content to come, you might try going for a saturation strategy; include a lot of varied characters, but don't try to be kitschy about it. Don't fall into the trap of fetishizing peoples history or culture, because that won't turn out well. Don't, for example, go the route of making Asian characters whose defining characteristics are their exoticism, as the steampunk community has occasionally done (to terrible effect) with its resurrection of orientalism. They key, I think, will be number which will be easier as the game grows; one black cop feels tokenistic, yes, but if you saturate the game enough, diversify it enough, have enough racially diverse characters visible enough, you start to escape the tokenism trap.
Although Victorian England wasn't diverse, and it was terribly racist, Fallen London doesn't necessarily half to be. It's a London that's diverged, that'd been forced to deal with all kinds of levels of insanity; terrible bats and monsters and starveling cats, demons, what have you. There is enough of both an externalised pressure on the humans of Fallen London, as well as a deep isolation, that one could justify a societal depriorisation of race overall.

Within that population, realistically, there may be some who maintain the prejudices of the past, and if you want that realism, you can even include it in your story writing. It would just have to be handled right; have it come identifiably from a character, so it can't be mistaken as narrative; preferably, have some other character or some whim of the narration capable of calling out that character, so that the audience can tell that the creators are aware of the subtext, and are not endorsing it.

I think, however, that you would be alright just continuing to ignore some of the more problematic aspects of Victorian culture; this is a game, this is an alternative London, this is the Bazaar. People have nightmares; there are esoteric forces abounds, and sinister happening and whatsits around every shaded bend.  

...anyway, old post is old, and not quite as relevant, but I thought I would respond anyway.

And in general, I just wanted to say how very, very happy I am that you even asked this, or posted this, or considered this; that you considered the complication of gender, and the preferences of your audience; and that you've given players the ability to, in romanticized storylines, infer or choose whichever gender they would like to. Thank you so, so much. <3

I'm a person of colour. I don't have the luxury of not thinking about such things as I move through the world, even when I'm "just" playing a game. So I'm glad to see that you're thinking about it, too.  People of colour have been living in London for centuries, not all of them doing menial labour. For example, I own a book that traces the presence of black people in Shakespearean London.  So I don't think that putting more characters of colour into the game need look as though it were labouring a point.  On the other hand, it's a point that could stand some labouring.

*hint hint* the way different ethnic roles were developed in the Pirates of the Caribbean series ...

I highly doubt anyone has thought about this, but there's no sunlight underground. No tanning, no melanin reacting to UV radiation, no color. Do I mean to say that everyone should be white? No. That would be ridiculous and racist, but what I am saying is that it is very difficult to attempt to transfer real world rules into a fictional universe. Also, I think attempting to make yourself color-blind by adding color defeats the purpose of trying to be color-blind. Real color-blind is "I like red hair with black skin and green eyes for this one!" not "Will people think our game is racist or feel excluded if I don't make this character have darker skin? Is it ok to think darker skin? Is that racist? Does it matter if I'm racist in my thoughts unintentionally?" I love this game, I've been addicted for more than a few days now, and I wouldn't mind the addition of different colored characters, as long as it doesn't influence their identity. People were delighted that you offered non-gendered people and treated men and women equally, and I think that you should treat different races the same way, instead of making racial characters, make characters, happen to color them in with a different crayon.

I know this is incredibly old news, but let me just say that as an androgyne (I prefer that term to "genderqueer," but the denotation is about the same), I was EXTREMELY pleased to see that there was a genderless option. It was probably one of the things that made me want to play this game most.

Meh. I'm not going to stop playing Legend of the 5 Rings because of a lack of white characters, so why would I stop playing Echo Bazaar due to a lack of non-whites? I didn't for Pendragon.
A lot of 'offensive' things are only because we take ourselves too seriously; a little laughter and tolerance puts things into perspective.

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